A forum for Glamorgan CCC fans
By Welwyn
#28181
I think we can now say that Cooke will be back for Middlesex which presents a few issues:

1) We have won 3 & drawn 4 since Lloyd has been made skipper. It seems harsh to drop him back into the ranks.
2) Tom Cullen has filled in well, especially with the bat, since coming in. It seems likely that they will both play, probably with Morgan giving way (presuming Hemphs is back). So who keeps?

I think question 1 is a difficult one. However the second one I think is easier. Cooke is now 33, coming off a bad knee injury and 2 years out from back problems. Keeping, certainly in the 4-day game, will significantly shorten his career. I think we take the gloves from him, in the Championship at least, in order to lengthen his career (Except if Cullen gets injured, considering our 3rd choice keeper is currently 15).
By Nick_Glam
#28182
As far as I know Cooke is our captain. Lloyd was aware he was only standing in for him so it won't be a problem.

I agree that Cullen should keep.
User avatar
By Vetchetarian
#28183
Nick_Glam wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:43 am As far as I know Cooke is our captain. Lloyd was aware he was only standing in for him so it won't be a problem.

I agree that Cullen should keep.
If Cooke returns as Captain and the team is beaten, perhaps it will become a problem.
By exileKT8
#28196
A bigger problem might be if Labuschagne gets called up for Australia A next week. Cooke just takes his place ?
By glamman
#28205
I have heard it suggested that Wagg is actually making a lot of the decisions on the field or at least strongly influencing them. That would be borne out by the sight of Wagg bowling left arm spin infront of Morgan. If that is the case we need Cooke back. Cooke is the club captain and there will be no issues him coming back as captain on the field.

Cullen seems to have kept better in the last game but I still think there are questins over his glove work and Cooke should keep.

Should Cullen play as a batsman?
He batted 7 in the last game. He averages 43 in the Championship while Cooke does not have an average as he has scored 93 runs in his 2 innings and not been out. He would bat higher than Cullen. Therefore does Cullen make it as one of the top 6 batsmen?
The team for the Middx game is likely to be:
Selman
Hemphrey
Labuschagne (may he renounce his Australian citizenship!)
Lloyd
Root
Cooke
Douthwaite
Wagg
De Lange
Two out of Hogan, Carey, TvdG

So I do not see where Cullen can play. Does not mean he is a bad player but for once we are selecting from a position of strength. The only place he might come in is instead of Douthwaite. As we have all said, there is no realistic spin option otherwise I would play that person instead of Wagg or Douthwaite. People will then say "What about the runs they score?" but select bowlers to take wickets not to score runs.

I was interested to see Root bowling in the T20 against the Netherlands. Seemed a bit pointless unless he is going to be cleared to bowl.
By Nick_Glam
#28207
glamman wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:03 pm I have heard it suggested that Wagg is actually making a lot of the decisions on the field or at least strongly influencing them. That would be borne out by the sight of Wagg bowling left arm spin infront of Morgan. If that is the case we need Cooke back. Cooke is the club captain and there will be no issues him coming back as captain on the field.

Cullen seems to have kept better in the last game but I still think there are questins over his glove work and Cooke should keep.

Should Cullen play as a batsman?
He batted 7 in the last game. He averages 43 in the Championship while Cooke does not have an average as he has scored 93 runs in his 2 innings and not been out. He would bat higher than Cullen. Therefore does Cullen make it as one of the top 6 batsmen?
The team for the Middx game is likely to be:
Selman
Hemphrey
Labuschagne (may he renounce his Australian citizenship!)
Lloyd
Root
Cooke
Douthwaite
Wagg
De Lange
Two out of Hogan, Carey, TvdG

So I do not see where Cullen can play. Does not mean he is a bad player but for once we are selecting from a position of strength. The only place he might come in is instead of Douthwaite. As we have all said, there is no realistic spin option otherwise I would play that person instead of Wagg or Douthwaite. People will then say "What about the runs they score?" but select bowlers to take wickets not to score runs.

I was interested to see Root bowling in the T20 against the Netherlands. Seemed a bit pointless unless he is going to be cleared to bowl.
I think it was suggested on the commentary that Cullen may well continue to keep wicket so that Cooke had can have an easier recovery. We shall see.

And I think the whole "select bowlers to take wickets not to score runs" theory has been tested this season. A huge part of our success has been down to runs scored by bowlers (and wickets taken by batsmen to a lesser extent). We don't have 6 good batsmen and we don't have 4 good bowlers so we have to mix and match.
By glamman
#28208
Nick_Glam wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:09 pm
glamman wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:03 pm I have heard it suggested that Wagg is actually making a lot of the decisions on the field or at least strongly influencing them. That would be borne out by the sight of Wagg bowling left arm spin infront of Morgan. If that is the case we need Cooke back. Cooke is the club captain and there will be no issues him coming back as captain on the field.

Cullen seems to have kept better in the last game but I still think there are questins over his glove work and Cooke should keep.

Should Cullen play as a batsman?
He batted 7 in the last game. He averages 43 in the Championship while Cooke does not have an average as he has scored 93 runs in his 2 innings and not been out. He would bat higher than Cullen. Therefore does Cullen make it as one of the top 6 batsmen?
The team for the Middx game is likely to be:
Selman
Hemphrey
Labuschagne (may he renounce his Australian citizenship!)
Lloyd
Root
Cooke
Douthwaite
Wagg
De Lange
Two out of Hogan, Carey, TvdG

So I do not see where Cullen can play. Does not mean he is a bad player but for once we are selecting from a position of strength. The only place he might come in is instead of Douthwaite. As we have all said, there is no realistic spin option otherwise I would play that person instead of Wagg or Douthwaite. People will then say "What about the runs they score?" but select bowlers to take wickets not to score runs.

I was interested to see Root bowling in the T20 against the Netherlands. Seemed a bit pointless unless he is going to be cleared to bowl.
I think it was suggested on the commentary that Cullen may well continue to keep wicket so that Cooke had can have an easier recovery. We shall see.

And I think the whole "select bowlers to take wickets not to score runs" theory has been tested this season. A huge part of our success has been down to runs scored by bowlers (and wickets taken by batsmen to a lesser extent). We don't have 6 good batsmen and we don't have 4 good bowlers so we have to mix and match.
Our batsmen aren't doing badly. Current averages:
Labuschagne 70
Selman 48
Root 47
Hemphrey 31
Lloyd 29
Cooke not been out

There is your top 6.

Bowlers: De Lange, Hogan, Carey and TvdG. The latter has not been as productive as previous years and Carey has been unlucky.

If you want both Cullen and Cooke to play then you need to drop one of the top 5. Otherwise it's Wagg or Douthwaite. Unfortunately you cannot play 12. Do not skimp on the bowling if you want to win games and as people have said, the bowlers score runs so do not need Cooke and Cullen.
By Nick_Glam
#28209
glamman wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:24 pm
Our batsmen aren't doing badly. Current averages:
Labuschagne 70
Selman 48
Root 47
Hemphrey 31
Lloyd 29
Cooke not been out

There is your top 6.

Bowlers: De Lange, Hogan, Carey and TvdG. The latter has not been as productive as previous years and Carey has been unlucky.

If you want both Cullen and Cooke to play then you need to drop one of the top 5. Otherwise it's Wagg or Douthwaite. Unfortunately you cannot play 12. Do not skimp on the bowling if you want to win games and as people have said, the bowlers score runs so do not need Cooke and Cullen.
Yes, Wagg or Douthwaite would make sense.
By glamman
#28210
Nick_Glam wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:45 pm
glamman wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:24 pm
Our batsmen aren't doing badly. Current averages:
Labuschagne 70
Selman 48
Root 47
Hemphrey 31
Lloyd 29
Cooke not been out

There is your top 6.

Bowlers: De Lange, Hogan, Carey and TvdG. The latter has not been as productive as previous years and Carey has been unlucky.

If you want both Cullen and Cooke to play then you need to drop one of the top 5. Otherwise it's Wagg or Douthwaite. Unfortunately you cannot play 12. Do not skimp on the bowling if you want to win games and as people have said, the bowlers score runs so do not need Cooke and Cullen.
Yes, Wagg or Douthwaite would make sense.
Wagg is averaging 45 against Cullen’s 43 so Wagg plays as a batsman ahead of Cullen. Douthwaite averaging 29 but if Cooke fit to keep I would play Douthwaite. Interestingly he didn’t bowl much in the last game so if his bowling is not felt good enough Cullen gets in.
User avatar
By Vetchetarian
#28213
glamman wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:24 am
Nick_Glam wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:45 pm
glamman wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:24 pm
Our batsmen aren't doing badly. Current averages:
Labuschagne 70
Selman 48
Root 47
Hemphrey 31
Lloyd 29
Cooke not been out

There is your top 6.

Bowlers: De Lange, Hogan, Carey and TvdG. The latter has not been as productive as previous years and Carey has been unlucky.

If you want both Cullen and Cooke to play then you need to drop one of the top 5. Otherwise it's Wagg or Douthwaite. Unfortunately you cannot play 12. Do not skimp on the bowling if you want to win games and as people have said, the bowlers score runs so do not need Cooke and Cullen.
Yes, Wagg or Douthwaite would make sense.
Wagg is averaging 45 against Cullen’s 43 so Wagg plays as a batsman ahead of Cullen. Douthwaite averaging 29 but if Cooke fit to keep I would play Douthwaite. Interestingly he didn’t bowl much in the last game so if his bowling is not felt good enough Cullen gets in.
Following your logic, since Cullen has a far better av than either Lloyd or Hemphrey, he should surely get the nod over both of them.
By glamman
#28214
Vetchetarian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:27 am
glamman wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:24 am
Nick_Glam wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:45 pm

Yes, Wagg or Douthwaite would make sense.
Wagg is averaging 45 against Cullen’s 43 so Wagg plays as a batsman ahead of Cullen. Douthwaite averaging 29 but if Cooke fit to keep I would play Douthwaite. Interestingly he didn’t bowl much in the last game so if his bowling is not felt good enough Cullen gets in.
Following your logic, since Cullen has a far better av than either Lloyd or Hemphrey, he should surely get the nod over both of them.
If Cullen can open then fine. He could replace Hemphrey. All I am saying is that if Cullen plays someone else has to be left out. You cannot play 12! If he plays as a batsman then he should find a place in the top 6. Wagg and Douthwaite provide bowling options and can score runs (as has repeatedly been stated). Would be a huge call to have him open so then it is Lloyd who is left out. Not sure that will happen.
By Welwyn
#28216
Think some of you are mis-thinking the second question.

Cooke is still one of our best batsman. He is 33 though with a history of back injuries and now knee injuries as well as the captaincy. I still think he's a better keeper than Cullen but I think with Cullen averaging over 40, it makes sense to have the conversation about taking the gloves
from him in the Championship as a way of helping him prolong his career.
By Nick_Glam
#28217
Welwyn wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:15 pm Think some of you are mis-thinking the second question.

Cooke is still one of our best batsman. He is 33 though with a history of back injuries and now knee injuries as well as the captaincy. I still think he's a better keeper than Cullen but I think with Cullen averaging over 40, it makes sense to have the conversation about taking the gloves
from him in the Championship
as a way of helping him prolong his career.
Indeed and, as I said earlier, especially for the next game as he is just coming back from a pretty bad injury. We are fortunate that we could pick Cullen as keeper and still have a very balanced side, so there must be a decent chance of that. I think Mark Wallace mentioned it as a possibility a couple of weeks ago.

I don't think I've successfully predicted a team all season though so what do I know? :lol
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