A forum for Kent CCC fans
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By gmdf
#22383
temporary wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:12 pm
gmdf wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:52 pm
I watched all three competitions, and whilst we under performed in the 50 over game, in T20 we were still in with a chance of qualifying when we came to play the last game, despite our indifferent and patchy form. At that point, in the second half of August, we were still in with a chance of winning the T20 and gaining promotion to Div 1 of the CC. Does that make us the 'second worst' team in the country?
Yes I'm afraid it does. It's not relevant where they were in the second half of August. They flopped and in the final analysis, which is all that matters, they were the second worst team in the country. I'm afraid you're being selective again. If they had been bottom of everything in August and then won trophies, I doubt you'd have said it was a poor season.

And by the way you should give polo a try. I've only dumped Kent after suffering yet another miserable season. Don't dump polo on the basis of some prejudice, see what it's like first.
Not a real fan then, a 'fair weather' supporter isn't a real supporter.

And as for Polo - well, I'm as likely to get into synchronised swimming as I am polo. Which is to say not at all likely. You are welcome to it.

PS FWIW I think you are wrong about Kent. I grew up when we we the best, or one of the best, counties every season. I'd love that to be the case again...maybe it will be one day. But to exaggerate in the way you do reeks of an ulterior motive.
#22385
gmdf wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:50 am
temporary wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:12 pm
gmdf wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:52 pm
I watched all three competitions, and whilst we under performed in the 50 over game, in T20 we were still in with a chance of qualifying when we came to play the last game, despite our indifferent and patchy form. At that point, in the second half of August, we were still in with a chance of winning the T20 and gaining promotion to Div 1 of the CC. Does that make us the 'second worst' team in the country?
Yes I'm afraid it does. It's not relevant where they were in the second half of August. They flopped and in the final analysis, which is all that matters, they were the second worst team in the country. I'm afraid you're being selective again. If they had been bottom of everything in August and then won trophies, I doubt you'd have said it was a poor season.

And by the way you should give polo a try. I've only dumped Kent after suffering yet another miserable season. Don't dump polo on the basis of some prejudice, see what it's like first.
Not a real fan then, a 'fair weather' supporter isn't a real supporter.

And as for Polo - well, I'm as likely to get into synchronised swimming as I am polo. Which is to say not at all likely. You are welcome to it.

PS FWIW I think you are wrong about Kent. I grew up when we we the best, or one of the best, counties every season. I'd love that to be the case again...maybe it will be one day. But to exaggerate in the way you do reeks of an ulterior motive.
I don't really mind if I don't fit your definition of a "real supporter". I was a paying customer who has now decided it's no longer value for money. As it happens I've also come to the same conclusion on the other team I formerly watched, namely Leyton Orient. I've now decided that the best value sport for me now is Cray Wanderers in the winter and polo in the summer. Unlike Kent all the Cray players put in good shifts, polo is skilful and exciting and both are cheap to watch. If you're happy to tolerate a chronically substandard product for your money on the basis of some kind of loyalty (which appears to be entirely unreciprocated) then good luck to you, but I'll no longer tolerate poor cricket any more than I would any other product I pay for. I've got no ulterior motive, I've simply packed it in for something better.
User avatar
By gmdf
#22386
temporary wrote:
gmdf wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:50 am
temporary wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:12 pm


Yes I'm afraid it does. It's not relevant where they were in the second half of August. They flopped and in the final analysis, which is all that matters, they were the second worst team in the country. I'm afraid you're being selective again. If they had been bottom of everything in August and then won trophies, I doubt you'd have said it was a poor season.

And by the way you should give polo a try. I've only dumped Kent after suffering yet another miserable season. Don't dump polo on the basis of some prejudice, see what it's like first.
Not a real fan then, a 'fair weather' supporter isn't a real supporter.

And as for Polo - well, I'm as likely to get into synchronised swimming as I am polo. Which is to say not at all likely. You are welcome to it.

PS FWIW I think you are wrong about Kent. I grew up when we we the best, or one of the best, counties every season. I'd love that to be the case again...maybe it will be one day. But to exaggerate in the way you do reeks of an ulterior motive.
I don't really mind if I don't fit your definition of a "real supporter". I was a paying customer who has now decided it's no longer value for money. As it happens I've also come to the same conclusion on the other team I formerly watched, namely Leyton Orient. I've now decided that the best value sport for me now is Cray Wanderers in the winter and polo in the summer. Unlike Kent all the Cray players put in good shifts, polo is skilful and exciting and both are cheap to watch. If you're happy to tolerate a chronically substandard product for your money on the basis of some kind of loyalty (which appears to be entirely unreciprocated) then good luck to you, but I'll no longer tolerate poor cricket any more than I would any other product I pay for. I've got no ulterior motive, I've simply packed it in for something better.
We all have a choice as to where to spend out money, of course, and what you value is entirely up to you.

Personally, though, I don't recognise your description of Kent's team - which on any measure has been stronger over the last 2 years, say, than it was over the previous 5 or so. Nor do I recognise your accusation that the Kent players don't put in 'good shifts'. Indeed I'd say the opposite - I've never faulted them on a lack of effort .

This season, indeed we've seen record breaking innings (Dickson), age defying bowling (Stevens) and fine batting (Denly, Northeast, Bell-Drummond in white ball games). In fact, having watched Kent since 1968, I'd say this year Denly and Northeast in particular have played many fine innings that rank alongside those by Denness, Asif, Hooper or Rob Key among others over the last half-century.

I can't actually understand how anyone who likes following one particular sport can - because the team they choose to support hasn't won any cups - give up the whole sport to watch another sport. But maybe that's just me. :eh:
#22417
One would have to say that temporary's assessment of Kent's season is far more objective and realistic than gmdf's rather rose-tinted view.

Kent were pretty awful across all three competitions and after finishing second in the CC in 2016, they definitely went backwards. Despite a great start to the CC season, by August it was obvious that they were at best fighting for fourth or fifth place. To pretend otherwise is the prerogative of only the most Polyanna-style optimist.

Denly undeniably had a "very pleasing summer" but when he made that comment, he was obviously talking about his personal achievements, and not claiming that Kent could be anything other than distraught by a season that saw them retreating backwards, rather than making progress.

I'm not sure on what statistics temporary has based his 'second worst team in the country' judgement. But in terms of chronic under-achieviment, Kent were the unrivalled champions.

And depressingly, while other couties have recruited smartly since the end of the season, all Kent has done is to announce departures. The loss of Coles in particular leaves the bowling looking fatally under-powered.

One always lives in hope , but the realist fears that 2018 promises nothing but another long, frustrating and ultimately unfruitful struggle.

With Middlesex and Warwichshire odds-on for an immediate return to Division One, Kent's long sojourn in the second tier looks set to turn into what would be the longest number of consecutive seasons in the lower tier of any county, bar the hopeless Leicestershire.

Geoffrey Boycott - who loves championship cricket more than ayone alive - gave an interview last week in which he said the 18 fiirst-class county system is no longer sustainable, either in terms of talent or revenue, and over the next decade will have to be dramatically reduced.

He is surely right and when the axe falls it would be tragic if Kent's lack of ambition means that the county of Woolley, Ames, Cowdrey, Underwood and Knott becomes one of the second-class counties that doesn't makes the cut.
Last edited by Umpire on Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By gmdf
#22419
You wouldn't expect me to agree that my view of Kent is 'rose tinted', and I certainly don't. After all I spent more time watching them play cricket this summer than doing anything else, so I do feel that my views are. at least, based on observation and much discussion with other KCCC supporters...and attendance at most of the club forums held where members can question Matt Walker, Graham Johnson et al.

Whilst I would agree that, by the end of the season, it was clear that Kent had failed to replicate their CC form of 2016, I'd disagree that "by August it was obvious that they were at best fighting for fourth or fifth place" - indeed all was to play for at that point, and with an overseas fast bowled (Milne) signed up for the rest of the matches, we certainly felt that we had a chance to finish second. Sadly we didn't play well (and suffered some bad weather) during the last month of the season...but the opportunity was there.

I agree with you about Denly - his views were about his own form, and all players are allowed to express pleasure at their own form. Indeed if more of the team had played as well as he did all season, we might well have achieved our aim of promotion. In particular the bowlers were disappointing (Stevens excluded) and if Coles, say, had reproduced his form of 2015 or 2016 we might well have been in the promotion mix right up to the end of the season. He will be missed in 2018, certainly, but less so on the form he showed this season than he might have been. I agree - as do all KCCC supporters I know - that he will need to be replaced by an overseas fast bowler - and we'll need at least one more signing in that area to be successful next year. I'd be amazed if the club didn't agree as well - but getting the right person is more important than just signing anyone. (I'm old enough to remember some pretty poor signings, overseas ans otherwise) over the last few decades.

For what it's worth I don't agree with Boycott. He's a pundit whose time has long gone, I'd suggest...as one or two of his other recent comments have shown. I don't think there will be an 'axe' in my lifetime, and the only way that the number of counties will be reduced is if one or more go bankrupt. (The way Durham were treated last year suggests that this might be what happens).

Like all supporters, I can't wait for next season. With one or two clever signings to supplement our bowling attack , and hopefully with Sam Billings available for more CC games, I think we may surprise some teams (and commentators). And I'd rather be starting with a team that finished 5th, rather than those who finished below us (including poor winless Leicestershire - now that really is under-achievement!).
#22421
I do have concerns about Kent's prospects for 2018. However I cannot believe that they will not recruit at least two or three bowlers which will obviously improve the squad greatly. If they don't KCCC will have no chance of success. Agree that M.Coles had a poor season and although he may prove a good signing for Essex it was equally obvious that something was not right at Kent.
#22425
life of riley wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:11 pm
I do have concerns about Kent's prospects for 2018. However I cannot believe that they will not recruit at least two or three bowlers which will obviously improve the squad greatly.
Depends whether they're any good and how much effort they make. There are none availble in English domestic cricket so they will have to come from overseas.

Kent have signed some horribly under-performing fast bowlling merecenaries who simply took the mickey (and the money) and went through the motions, from Langeveldt to Milne, via Bollinger and Wahab Riaz.
User avatar
By gmdf
#22430
Umpire wrote:
life of riley wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:11 pm
I do have concerns about Kent's prospects for 2018. However I cannot believe that they will not recruit at least two or three bowlers which will obviously improve the squad greatly.
Depends whether they're any good and how much effort they make. There are none availble in English domestic cricket so they will have to come from overseas.

Kent have signed some horribly under-performing fast bowlling merecenaries who simply took the mickey (and the money) and went through the motions, from Langeveldt to Milne, via Bollinger and Wahab Riaz.
I didn't see Milne as going 'through the motions' when I saw him play...Did you actually see him play?
#22723
"temporary" complains that watching Kent has been poor value for money.

He's lucky he's not a Yorkshire exile who makes two pilgrimages a year for the county championship games at Scarborough.

On the cost side: membership of Scarborough Cricket Club; 500 miles of motoring; 10 nights hotel accommodation.

The benefits?: A loss against Somerset; and then an ignominious defeat against Essex in under 2 days.

In addition, of course, all Yorkshire supporters take it for granted that we should be county champions; whereas supporters of other counties plainly have no right to such presumption. Yorkshire supporters feel the pain of a defeat more deeply than do others.
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